Saolin (Marooned Worldhopper)

Postby Mac » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:01 pm

Out of Character. Click to reveal.
Sorry, I'm phrasing my concerns oddly. Saolin has his secret drive; Tec can drop plot-hooks with the barest hint of worldhopping, and Saolin will jump at them. EnVoor gets divine text messages. I'm not sure I've given Tec enough to work with. I made Arrenzo too happy. When he spoke with Cherish, I had to shoehorn in a lame reason he might ever consider going out to the Roughs. I didn't mean to fill Saolin's character sheet with my rambles, let's just drop it.
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Postby tecslicer » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:17 pm

Why not just have him be happy with life, but willing to do his duty to the school and willing to lend aid where it is needed? Then let him find a cause in the Roughs?

Just throwing it out there. No need to have great ambition to have a great cause.
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Postby Kurkistan » Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:34 pm

Also: Sorry Kads, didn't mean to not shake Saolin's hand. I missed the "proffered his hand" bit when I was replying. Consider it shaken. ;)
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Postby Kadrok » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:24 pm

Am I allowed to mention Steelhunt stuff here? I just realised I quoted a tiny bit over in General (about how Scadrial is an Earth analogue) without really thinking about it... if it's not meant to be around, feel free to delete my post.

Now, onto the important bit. There's actually something regarding Saolin and Scadrial I hadn't considered. I'd quote it, but as I am unsure of what I'm allowed to share I might hold off on that for now. But for tec and the others, it's in the last AoL annotation for Chapter 3, at the end of the second paragraph. The long and the short of it is that Saolin might have a bargaining chip with Sazed he didn't realise he had...
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Postby Mac » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:38 pm

Something I've wondered for a while. Do Shards automatically know about worldhoppers? When Saolin arrived on Scadrial, was it like a drop of water entering a bowl, and the goldfish never noticed? Or was it like a knife entering a body?

What, specifically, is Saolin's bargaining chip? Do you have knowledge of other Shards he'd be interested in? This is something I've wondered for a while; how Realmatically aware is Saolin? Obviously, he's aware that there are many worlds in existence. Does he know about Adonalsium? The Shards? Odium? Does he know Tanavast is dead and Honor shattered? Is he aware that all the various Gods are, basically, cousins? Does he know which Gods are Shards and which are... um, whatever other Gods are, like Jaddeth or Trell or the spirits of the Pahn Kahl? He is a native of Roshar. Does he hold Rosharan beliefs about how the world works? Does he have accurate knowledge such as we the fans do? Does he believe rumors about the Cosmere, about worldhopping, about Scadrial that we the players know are untrue?

I just want to say again how awesome this character is. Someone with this past, someone who has knowledge of what it's like to be Invested, yet someone who so believably lost their powers in such an organic way... you've done a great job here.
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Postby Kadrok » Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:33 pm

Mac wrote:Something I've wondered for a while. Do Shards automatically know about worldhoppers? When Saolin arrived on Scadrial, was it like a drop of water entering a bowl, and the goldfish never noticed? Or was it like a knife entering a body?
I've wondered that myself. I got the impression Hoid wasn't acting dramatically so he could keep concealing his presence from Odium, so you could argue that Shard's sensing alien presences isn't an automatic thing... but there are several problems with this:
1. Hoid might have a stealth mode power or ability that explains this. It may also be the case that Odium sensed Hoid arrive, but Hoid could have masked his trail somehow. Therefore what might apply to Hoid might not apply to Saolin.
2. Odium isn't technically on Roshar, he's on Braize. Therefore, what might apply to him won't necessarily apply to Sazed.
3. If Hoid is hiding from Odium, it may be that Odium is aware of his presence on the world, but not his specific location, kind of like what an inexperienced or negative circumstance riddled Seeker might experience.

Our answer to this question has potentially important implications for how EnVoor interacts with Saolin. It might be easiest to assume that Sazed is aware of Saolin without explaining specifics. That way, if it is an automatic thing we're covered, and if it isn't we can chalk it up to Sazed finding him earlier on, and sitting on the information.
Mac wrote:What, specifically, is Saolin's bargaining chip?
I simply meant that Saolin has been to several other worlds, and therefore might have information Sazed is seeking. Even just knowing their religions and culture (something Saolin is almost definitely positioned to know) might be of use, and especially of interest to Sazed. The annotation talked about how Sazed is working hard to investigate the other worlds and Shards in the hope of protecting Scadrial. Let's hope Sazed hasn't noticed Saolin's journal, otherwise Giles might be doing some thieving...

And now a whole bunch of questions we should probably have dealt with earlier. Thanks for bringing them up Mac! The answers depend largely on what tec is happy with, so I'm going to give what I was going with, and tec can give what he's happy with, and then we can work on how all that works:
Mac wrote:Do you have knowledge of other Shards he'd be interested in?
He knows about Honour, Cultivation and Odium. I think the Worldhopper mentioned Dominion and Devotion with relation to Sel, but didn't give specifics to what religions they are properly connected to. He also knew about Ruin and Preservation from an earlier visit to Scadrial, and has surmised that someone has dealt with these Shards since his last visit. If he talks to EnVoor about the beliefs of Pathism he'd likely conclude that Sazed took them both, depending on how detailed the Pathist or world history is. I'll have to recheck the supplement... is Harmony common knowledge like Kurk suggested in that post, or would Saolin have grounds to think it is either the Survivor or Harmony?
Mac wrote:This is something I've wondered for a while; how Realmatically aware is Saolin?
Given his travels with the Worldhopper, a veritable font of knowledge like her analogue the Doctor, I'd say he knows about the Cognitive/Physical/Spiritual division of things, or at least as much as we do. He knows about Shadesmar, as his mention of it would suggest.
Mac wrote:Obviously, he's aware that there are many worlds in existence. Does he know about Adonalsium?
He might have heard the name. The Worldhopper isn't quite a Hoid, in that I'm not sure she was around at the shattering... and even if she was, chances are she doesn't talk about that much. So it may have come up if he'd had a reason to learn the name, but I doubt he's going to be of much use to Sazed in that regard. Unless tec would rather he did?
Mac wrote:The Shards? Odium? Does he know Tanavast is dead and Honor shattered?
I mentioned Odium above. I'd say he knows the Shards are pretty much giant globs of Investiture held by people, and he'd probably been told the power changes the holder over time (such that he doesn't particularly want to be a Shardholder, because he quite likes himself). Let's see... would he know about the death of Honour? Possibly. Possibly not. I could see it either way actually.
Mac wrote:Is he aware that all the various Gods are, basically, cousins?
I don't think he'd necessarily think of it that way, but he knows they're the same species of thing.
Mac wrote:Does he know which Gods are Shards and which are... um, whatever other Gods are, like Jaddeth or Trell or the spirits of the Pahn Kahl?
Nope. He knows only what he's learned. A name like Harmony would be a dead giveaway, but he might equally conclude that the Survivor is another name for Preservation. It all depends on how much the religions match what he knows of Shards and of the Shards on Scadrial. The name Honour for the Almighty is actually a thing on Roshar and he's had the opportunity to figure that out, so he does connect the Almighty with Honour.
Mac wrote:He is a native of Roshar.
I don't know if I'd actually locked that in, but at the moment I'm rolling with a "Cultured Herdazian" concept, so we'll go with Rosharan native.
Mac wrote:Does he hold Rosharan beliefs about how the world works? Does he have accurate knowledge such as we the fans do? Does he believe rumors about the Cosmere, about worldhopping, about Scadrial that we the players know are untrue?
I'd need specifics; do you want to put any forward, and then tec and I can talk about them?
Mac wrote:I just want to say again how awesome this character is. Someone with this past, someone who has knowledge of what it's like to be Invested, yet someone who so believably lost their powers in such an organic way... you've done a great job here.
Thank you kindly. I only hope I live up to the concept's potential.
As far as the limitations of knowledge, I'm certainly taking suggestions.
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Postby Kurkistan » Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:44 pm

If you want to make a fun (read: horrible and tedious, but at least time consuming) time of it, you could limit Saolin's general Realmatic knowledge to what we (the readers/community) knew/figured out as of 2 years ago or the like.
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Postby Kadrok » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:50 am

Apparently it's possible to accidentally worldhop. Just thought I'd put that out there. http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/14 ... ntry168052
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