House Rules

A place for laying plans, dispersing general info, and holding OOC discussions.

Postby Herowannabe » Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:22 am

Specifically, this is what Brandon said in the MAG:

FROM BRANDON
None of the Enhancement Metals are well understood during the days of the Final Empire, in part because they’re so hard to come by. This and subsequent metal chapters, and the rules within, are presented so you can have fun and experiment, rather than as a complete explanation of everything they can do. To reveal them in full would ruin surprises intended for much later in the series.
That said, however, consider the implications of Aluminum in Feruchemy. With proper manipulation, it might be theoretically possible to tap someone else’s metalminds...


He never mentioned Nicrosil, only Aluminum, though it seems likely that at the time of this quote he already had in mind some of the tricks that he revealed in Bands of Mourning. However, in the very same quote he points out that the MAG specifically does NOT explain everything the metals can do.

Elsewhere he has also said that the MAG metals are not considered canon. He gave Crafty what information he felt appropriate at the time and then let them speculate as to what the powers could do, and specifically did not make any corrections that would spoil secrets for later books. It's pretty clear that Bands of Mourning was one of those books. Also, Crafty themselves [urlhttps://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4soujz/i_am_alex_flagg_a_tabletop_game_designer_and/d5b0oqo]have indicated that they will be addressing and correcting the metallic powers revealed in the most recent books[/url].

So anyway, long story short, the rules for Nicrosil in the MAG are a fun and interesting idea for how Nicrosil might have worked. I've played campaigns that use those rules and they've been enjoyable. For this campaign, I'd like to use the alternate rules for Nicrosil that we came up with that more closely align with what we see in the novels. I think that they will be equally fun and interesting, just in different ways. I hope that's alright with everyone.

EDIT: Do note that on many levels our homebrew Nicrosil rules accomplish the same things as the MAG rules, just in different ways. MAG-Nicrosil lets you tap nicrosil in conjunction with another metal to get more power out of the other metal. It does this by adding your Nicrosil charges to the tapped charges of the other metal.

Homebrew-Nicrosil lets you get more power out of other metals by making you a more powerful feruchemist in that metal. This means that you can tap greater chunks of charges, reaching some of the higher echelons listed in the "Tapping 10+ charges" sections. You can still also tap nicrosil in large chunks to add nudges and/or increase outcome when used in conjunction with other powers.

In the end, both versions increase your power in other metals. Homebrew Nicrosil has the potential to increase your power to far greater levels than MAG-Nicrosil does, but does so at the cost of tapping more charges of that metal.
Herowannabe
Head Narrator
Head Narrator
 
Posts: 2898
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:17 pm

Postby Herowannabe » Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:07 am

You know, thinking about it some more, I think it only fair that if you want to start knowing about a secret metal that you actually get to start with some of that metal to play around with. Especially for the harder-to-obtain metals. It's great to know about them, but if it takes several long breathers worth of attempting resource rolls until you get a pair of 5s, well... that's not very fun.

So if you start with a secret metal, you also get 1 dose of that metal to start out with. This doesn't take up a prop slot.
Herowannabe
Head Narrator
Head Narrator
 
Posts: 2898
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:17 pm

Postby Herowannabe » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:57 am

Bands of Mourning Spoilers follow! I'd advise you to avoid opening the OOC box if you haven't read Bands of Mourning yet, and if you reply to this comment, please put it in OOC tags, too. thanks.

Spoiler:
Out of Character. Click to reveal.
So I just realized that with our Keeper Lorien and his two secret metals (aluminum and nicrosil), we have all the pieces in place to replicate some of the unlocked-metalmind shenanigans we see in Bands of Mourning. I am not opposed to this, but it does mean that we should agree upon some house rules, at least to tide us over until the Alloy of Law II supplement is released and we get official rules. Here's what I'm thinking right now, though I am wide open to suggestions and alternatives:

First, let's lay this out. So to create an unkeyed metalmind, you store an attribute while simultaneously storing all your identity in an aluminummind.

The second piece of the puzzle is storing a power (ie: feruchemical gold) in an unkeyed nicrosilmind, so that someone else can then draw them out and use them herself (ie: and temporarily become a bloodmaker). My memory is a little sketchy, but is that all it took? Or was their something else needed in order to create unkeyed metalminds that anybody could use?

Lastly, the recipient had to realize that the metalmind was indeed a metalmind before he or she could sense the powers and draw them out.

So the process is:
1. Store identity and <power> to create an unkeyed metalmind for that power
2. Store identity and <power> Investiture to create an unkeyed nicrosilmind.
3. Give both metalminds to somebody and tell them that they're metalminds.
4. The recipient taps the nicrosilmind, temporarily becoming a <power> ferring
5. The recipient can now tap the <power>mind.

alternatively, steps 2-4 can be skipped if you give your unkeyed metalmind to another feruchemist.

Does that all sound right? Okay. Back to rules.

In game terms,
1. I propose that we say that if you store your maximum amount of identity in an aluminummind, any other charges you store at the same time are unkeyed (and should be noted as such on the character sheet). Simple enough, but I feel like it should require a stunt to figure out this trick (or a Secret, but either way, it's going to cost 4 AP).

2. No special rules needed for tapping an unkeyed Nicrosil mind and temporarily gaining the powers tapped, but I wonder if that whole process should require a second stunt/secret to figure out. Or is one stunt for the unkeyed-metalmind trick enough? Or is even that too much?

Again, I'm open to input.
Herowannabe
Head Narrator
Head Narrator
 
Posts: 2898
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:17 pm

Postby Conquestor » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:16 am

Herowannabe wrote:Bands of Mourning Spoilers follow! I'd advise you to avoid opening the OOC box if you haven't read Bands of Mourning yet, and if you reply to this comment, please put it in OOC tags, too. thanks.

Spoiler:
Out of Character. Click to reveal.
So I just realized that with our Keeper Lorien and his two secret metals (aluminum and nicrosil), we have all the pieces in place to replicate some of the unlocked-metalmind shenanigans we see in Bands of Mourning. I am not opposed to this, but it does mean that we should agree upon some house rules, at least to tide us over until the Alloy of Law II supplement is released and we get official rules. Here's what I'm thinking right now, though I am wide open to suggestions and alternatives:

First, let's lay this out. So to create an unkeyed metalmind, you store an attribute while simultaneously storing all your identity in an aluminummind.

The second piece of the puzzle is storing a power (ie: feruchemical gold) in an unkeyed nicrosilmind, so that someone else can then draw them out and use them herself (ie: and temporarily become a bloodmaker). My memory is a little sketchy, but is that all it took? Or was their something else needed in order to create unkeyed metalminds that anybody could use?

Lastly, the recipient had to realize that the metalmind was indeed a metalmind before he or she could sense the powers and draw them out.

So the process is:
1. Store identity and <power> to create an unkeyed metalmind for that power
2. Store identity and <power> Investiture to create an unkeyed nicrosilmind.
3. Give both metalminds to somebody and tell them that they're metalminds.
4. The recipient taps the nicrosilmind, temporarily becoming a <power> ferring
5. The recipient can now tap the <power>mind.

alternatively, steps 2-4 can be skipped if you give your unkeyed metalmind to another feruchemist.

Does that all sound right? Okay. Back to rules.

In game terms,
1. I propose that we say that if you store your maximum amount of identity in an aluminummind, any other charges you store at the same time are unkeyed (and should be noted as such on the character sheet). Simple enough, but I feel like it should require a stunt to figure out this trick (or a Secret, but either way, it's going to cost 4 AP).

2. No special rules needed for tapping an unkeyed Nicrosil mind and temporarily gaining the powers tapped, but I wonder if that whole process should require a second stunt/secret to figure out. Or is one stunt for the unkeyed-metalmind trick enough? Or is even that too much?

Again, I'm open to input.


That was one of the reasons I chose those metals. :D
Out of Character. Click to reveal.
Ofcourse the way to make a metalmind anyone can use in the books is, first, make an unkeyed Nicrosil mind, second, store another unkeyed power in the same metalmind. You were mostly right, but the Nicrosil mind and the other power have to be combined into one "coin", which what was used in the books.
Edit : I just relized that using this technique that or local Terrismen (Tarahaz) could use Feruchemy. 3:D
Conquestor
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:47 pm

Character name: Lorien

: Attr -- Stand -- Res: :
Phy: 3 -- Res: 4/4 -- Hea: 7/7

Cha: 3 -- Inf: 3/3 -- Rep: 6/6

Wit: 5 -- Spi: 2/2 -- Wil: 7/7
TraitsTraits and BurdensTraits & BurdensDrive - Discover the secrets of the Metallic arts
Profession - scholar
Specialty - Metalurgy
Feature - Battle scar on left arm
Personality - Sarcastic
PowersPowersPowersFeruchemy / 3 in all metals.
InventoryInventoryInventory3 MetalMinds average / staff.
1st MetalMind - Pewter 50/100 - Steel 50/100 - Iron 50/100
2nd MetalMind - Bronze 50/100 - Copper 50/100 - Zinc 50/100
3rd MultiMind - Gold 50/100 - Brass 50/100 - Tin(sight) 50/100
Aluminum Mind - 25/50
Nicrosil(Iron) Mind - 12/25
1 Atium bead

Postby bobbyboone » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:05 am

Conquestor wrote:That was one of the reasons I chose those metals. :D
Out of Character. Click to reveal.
Ofcourse the way to make a metalmind anyone can use in the books is, first, make an unkeyed Nicrosil mind, second, store another unkeyed power in the same metalmind. You were mostly right, but the Nicrosil mind and the other power have to be combined into one "coin", which what was used in the books.
Edit : I just relized that using this technique that or local Terrismen (Tarahaz) could use Feruchemy. 3:D


Which is of course why you took the trait metallurgy! :D

Hero, I like the rules you set up for creating unkeyed metalminds, it should be lots of fun experimenting with them! There probably will be a roll having to do with creating the combined metalminds, too, of course, but the basics are really quite clever!

This crew is awesome!
bobbyboone
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:21 am

Character name: Alvern Bertais

: Attr -- Stand -- Res: :
Phy: 3 -- Res: 5/5 -- Hea: 8/8

Cha: 4 -- Inf: 5/5 -- Rep: 9/9

Wit: 4 -- Spi: 4/4 -- Wil: 8/8

AP: 1
TraitsTraits and BurdensTraits & BurdensDrive: Bring down the lofty
Profession: Curiosity/Antique Shop Owner
Specialty: Numerous Noble Customers
Feature: Always has a joke
Personality: Inviting
Other Traits: Amateur Duelist, Fiction Lover

Network:
Yeden's Rebellion (Rules: Keep the rebellion’s location secret; secure additional provisions and supplies for the rebels; contribute to the training of skaa troops. Benefit: First nudge per beat dealing extra damage to a member of the steel ministry deals 2 instead of 1)
PowersPowersPowersNone
InventoryInventoryInventoryDueling Cane (+2 dmg, touch/striking)
Formal Clothing
Disguise
Antique/Curiosity Shop (Safe house)
Pocketwatch

Postby Herowannabe » Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:11 am

Conquestor wrote:
Herowannabe wrote:Bands of Mourning Spoilers follow! I'd advise you to avoid opening the OOC box if you haven't read Bands of Mourning yet, and if you reply to this comment, please put it in OOC tags, too. thanks.

Spoiler:
Out of Character. Click to reveal.
So I just realized that with our Keeper Lorien and his two secret metals (aluminum and nicrosil), we have all the pieces in place to replicate some of the unlocked-metalmind shenanigans we see in Bands of Mourning. I am not opposed to this, but it does mean that we should agree upon some house rules, at least to tide us over until the Alloy of Law II supplement is released and we get official rules. Here's what I'm thinking right now, though I am wide open to suggestions and alternatives:

First, let's lay this out. So to create an unkeyed metalmind, you store an attribute while simultaneously storing all your identity in an aluminummind.

The second piece of the puzzle is storing a power (ie: feruchemical gold) in an unkeyed nicrosilmind, so that someone else can then draw them out and use them herself (ie: and temporarily become a bloodmaker). My memory is a little sketchy, but is that all it took? Or was their something else needed in order to create unkeyed metalminds that anybody could use?

Lastly, the recipient had to realize that the metalmind was indeed a metalmind before he or she could sense the powers and draw them out.

So the process is:
1. Store identity and <power> to create an unkeyed metalmind for that power
2. Store identity and <power> Investiture to create an unkeyed nicrosilmind.
3. Give both metalminds to somebody and tell them that they're metalminds.
4. The recipient taps the nicrosilmind, temporarily becoming a <power> ferring
5. The recipient can now tap the <power>mind.

alternatively, steps 2-4 can be skipped if you give your unkeyed metalmind to another feruchemist.

Does that all sound right? Okay. Back to rules.

In game terms,
1. I propose that we say that if you store your maximum amount of identity in an aluminummind, any other charges you store at the same time are unkeyed (and should be noted as such on the character sheet). Simple enough, but I feel like it should require a stunt to figure out this trick (or a Secret, but either way, it's going to cost 4 AP).

2. No special rules needed for tapping an unkeyed Nicrosil mind and temporarily gaining the powers tapped, but I wonder if that whole process should require a second stunt/secret to figure out. Or is one stunt for the unkeyed-metalmind trick enough? Or is even that too much?

Again, I'm open to input.


That was one of the reasons I chose those metals. :D
Out of Character. Click to reveal.
Ofcourse the way to make a metalmind anyone can use in the books is, first, make an unkeyed Nicrosil mind, second, store another unkeyed power in the same metalmind. You were mostly right, but the Nicrosil mind and the other power have to be combined into one "coin", which what was used in the books.
Edit : I just relized that using this technique that or local Terrismen (Tarahaz) could use Feruchemy. 3:D



Out of Character. Click to reveal.
Yeah, I figured as much once I made the connection. ;) which, again, I'm totally one with. I just want to get the rules established now so that we can let you play around with sharing your metalminds. ;)

I don't think the nicrosilmind and other metalmind actually need to be combined into one- I get the impression that they simply do that for convenience. Just as long as you were touching both metalminds at the same time it should work just as well. But yeah, if you wante to combine them into one metalmind (technically a small multimind), you certainly could do so with a relatively easy metallurgy roll.

What are your thoughts on the requirement to spend some AP to learn how to create unkeyed metalminds and/or learning how to use nicrosilminds to share powers with other people? I'm most interested in your opinion on the matter, since it directly affects your character.
Herowannabe
Head Narrator
Head Narrator
 
Posts: 2898
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:17 pm

Postby Conquestor » Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:20 pm

Herowannabe wrote:
Conquestor wrote:
Herowannabe wrote:Bands of Mourning Spoilers follow! I'd advise you to avoid opening the OOC box if you haven't read Bands of Mourning yet, and if you reply to this comment, please put it in OOC tags, too. thanks.

Spoiler:
Out of Character. Click to reveal.
So I just realized that with our Keeper Lorien and his two secret metals (aluminum and nicrosil), we have all the pieces in place to replicate some of the unlocked-metalmind shenanigans we see in Bands of Mourning. I am not opposed to this, but it does mean that we should agree upon some house rules, at least to tide us over until the Alloy of Law II supplement is released and we get official rules. Here's what I'm thinking right now, though I am wide open to suggestions and alternatives:

First, let's lay this out. So to create an unkeyed metalmind, you store an attribute while simultaneously storing all your identity in an aluminummind.

The second piece of the puzzle is storing a power (ie: feruchemical gold) in an unkeyed nicrosilmind, so that someone else can then draw them out and use them herself (ie: and temporarily become a bloodmaker). My memory is a little sketchy, but is that all it took? Or was their something else needed in order to create unkeyed metalminds that anybody could use?

Lastly, the recipient had to realize that the metalmind was indeed a metalmind before he or she could sense the powers and draw them out.

So the process is:
1. Store identity and <power> to create an unkeyed metalmind for that power
2. Store identity and <power> Investiture to create an unkeyed nicrosilmind.
3. Give both metalminds to somebody and tell them that they're metalminds.
4. The recipient taps the nicrosilmind, temporarily becoming a <power> ferring
5. The recipient can now tap the <power>mind.

alternatively, steps 2-4 can be skipped if you give your unkeyed metalmind to another feruchemist.

Does that all sound right? Okay. Back to rules.

In game terms,
1. I propose that we say that if you store your maximum amount of identity in an aluminummind, any other charges you store at the same time are unkeyed (and should be noted as such on the character sheet). Simple enough, but I feel like it should require a stunt to figure out this trick (or a Secret, but either way, it's going to cost 4 AP).

2. No special rules needed for tapping an unkeyed Nicrosil mind and temporarily gaining the powers tapped, but I wonder if that whole process should require a second stunt/secret to figure out. Or is one stunt for the unkeyed-metalmind trick enough? Or is even that too much?

Again, I'm open to input.


That was one of the reasons I chose those metals. :D
Out of Character. Click to reveal.
Ofcourse the way to make a metalmind anyone can use in the books is, first, make an unkeyed Nicrosil mind, second, store another unkeyed power in the same metalmind. You were mostly right, but the Nicrosil mind and the other power have to be combined into one "coin", which what was used in the books.
Edit : I just relized that using this technique that or local Terrismen (Tarahaz) could use Feruchemy. 3:D



Out of Character. Click to reveal.
Yeah, I figured as much once I made the connection. ;) which, again, I'm totally one with. I just want to get the rules established now so that we can let you play around with sharing your metalminds. ;)

I don't think the nicrosilmind and other metalmind actually need to be combined into one- I get the impression that they simply do that for convenience. Just as long as you were touching both metalminds at the same time it should work just as well. But yeah, if you wante to combine them into one metalmind (technically a small multimind), you certainly could do so with a relatively easy metallurgy roll.

What are your thoughts on the requirement to spend some AP to learn how to create unkeyed metalminds and/or learning how to use nicrosilminds to share powers with other people? I'm most interested in your opinion on the matter, since it directly affects your character.


Out of Character. Click to reveal.
First, in the books, the reason anyone could tap a unkeyed nicrosil mind, is because everyne was at least partially related to terrismen. I'm wanting to change my network out for this knowledge, but want your say on it first, also, because of the reqirement about them being Terris, I think that it should cost little to nothing AP. If it does have a cost, I think it should be 2 AP and if that is the case, I will trade that and Duralimin for my network.
Conquestor
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:47 pm

Character name: Lorien

: Attr -- Stand -- Res: :
Phy: 3 -- Res: 4/4 -- Hea: 7/7

Cha: 3 -- Inf: 3/3 -- Rep: 6/6

Wit: 5 -- Spi: 2/2 -- Wil: 7/7
TraitsTraits and BurdensTraits & BurdensDrive - Discover the secrets of the Metallic arts
Profession - scholar
Specialty - Metalurgy
Feature - Battle scar on left arm
Personality - Sarcastic
PowersPowersPowersFeruchemy / 3 in all metals.
InventoryInventoryInventory3 MetalMinds average / staff.
1st MetalMind - Pewter 50/100 - Steel 50/100 - Iron 50/100
2nd MetalMind - Bronze 50/100 - Copper 50/100 - Zinc 50/100
3rd MultiMind - Gold 50/100 - Brass 50/100 - Tin(sight) 50/100
Aluminum Mind - 25/50
Nicrosil(Iron) Mind - 12/25
1 Atium bead

Postby bobbyboone » Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:30 pm

Conquestor wrote:
Out of Character. Click to reveal.
First, in the books, the reason anyone could tap a unkeyed nicrosil mind, is because everyne was at least partially related to terrismen. I'm wanting to change my network out for this knowledge, but want your say on it first, also, because of the reqirement about them being Terris, I think that it should cost little to nothing AP. If it does have a cost, I think it should be 2 AP and if that is the case, I will trade that and Duralimin for my network.


Out of Character. Click to reveal.
The reason anyone could tap an unkeyed nicrosil mind is because there was no identity attached to the metalmind. The reason we know it has nothing to do with Terris heritage is because the Southern Scadrians were able to use them, and they were definitively not descendants of the Terris. The cost of the knowledge is up to Hero, but it's an important distinction on why unkeyed metalminds work. This also means that any character could theoretically use one, though I would bet no one would even try to use a Keeper's metalmind if they weren't Terris.
bobbyboone
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:21 am

Character name: Alvern Bertais

: Attr -- Stand -- Res: :
Phy: 3 -- Res: 5/5 -- Hea: 8/8

Cha: 4 -- Inf: 5/5 -- Rep: 9/9

Wit: 4 -- Spi: 4/4 -- Wil: 8/8

AP: 1
TraitsTraits and BurdensTraits & BurdensDrive: Bring down the lofty
Profession: Curiosity/Antique Shop Owner
Specialty: Numerous Noble Customers
Feature: Always has a joke
Personality: Inviting
Other Traits: Amateur Duelist, Fiction Lover

Network:
Yeden's Rebellion (Rules: Keep the rebellion’s location secret; secure additional provisions and supplies for the rebels; contribute to the training of skaa troops. Benefit: First nudge per beat dealing extra damage to a member of the steel ministry deals 2 instead of 1)
PowersPowersPowersNone
InventoryInventoryInventoryDueling Cane (+2 dmg, touch/striking)
Formal Clothing
Disguise
Antique/Curiosity Shop (Safe house)
Pocketwatch

Postby Herowannabe » Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:44 pm

Out of Character. Click to reveal.
I agree with what Boone said- I don't think the Terris heritage has as much to do with it as the characters in the book seem to think it did. At the very least, I'm willing to ignore that for this adventure, and let anyone (who knows what they're doing) use unkeyed metalminds.

I'm fine letting you change your network, and you're right- *not being able to share Terris secrets is pretty limiting when you have unkeyed metalminds to share around.

I still think 4AP is pretty reasonable. The knowledge of creating unkeyed metalminds and sharing them around definitely qualifies as a major secret. I will let you start with the secret though, and since you're dropping your network you conveniently have 4AP to spend... ;)

*(EDIT: I'd still be wary of being too liberal with the secret, however, lest you attract unwanted attention... 3:( )
Herowannabe
Head Narrator
Head Narrator
 
Posts: 2898
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:17 pm

Postby Conquestor » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:21 pm

Herowannabe wrote:
Out of Character. Click to reveal.
I agree with what Boone said- I don't think the Terris heritage has as much to do with it as the characters in the book seem to think it did. At the very least, I'm willing to ignore that for this adventure, and let anyone (who knows what they're doing) use unkeyed metalminds.

I'm fine letting you change your network, and you're right- *not being able to share Terris secrets is pretty limiting when you have unkeyed metalminds to share around.

I still think 4AP is pretty reasonable. The knowledge of creating unkeyed metalminds and sharing them around definitely qualifies as a major secret. I will let you start with the secret though, and since you're dropping your network you conveniently have 4AP to spend... ;)

*(EDIT: I'd still be wary of being too liberal with the secret, however, lest you attract unwanted attention... 3:( )


Thanks, I think that I'm going to change them out. I am going to be giving the crew a BIG boost. :D
Conquestor
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:47 pm

Character name: Lorien

: Attr -- Stand -- Res: :
Phy: 3 -- Res: 4/4 -- Hea: 7/7

Cha: 3 -- Inf: 3/3 -- Rep: 6/6

Wit: 5 -- Spi: 2/2 -- Wil: 7/7
TraitsTraits and BurdensTraits & BurdensDrive - Discover the secrets of the Metallic arts
Profession - scholar
Specialty - Metalurgy
Feature - Battle scar on left arm
Personality - Sarcastic
PowersPowersPowersFeruchemy / 3 in all metals.
InventoryInventoryInventory3 MetalMinds average / staff.
1st MetalMind - Pewter 50/100 - Steel 50/100 - Iron 50/100
2nd MetalMind - Bronze 50/100 - Copper 50/100 - Zinc 50/100
3rd MultiMind - Gold 50/100 - Brass 50/100 - Tin(sight) 50/100
Aluminum Mind - 25/50
Nicrosil(Iron) Mind - 12/25
1 Atium bead

PreviousNext

Return to The Safehouse


  • Who is online
  • Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest