Work in Progress: Stormlight Rules

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cometaryorbit
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Work in Progress: Stormlight Rules

Post by cometaryorbit » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:38 am

Stormlight

A Surgebinder of any type or a Squire can hold Stormlight.

All characters who can hold Stormlight have a standard capacity of 10 charges. Squires can hold no more charges than this, but Surgebinders also have a maximum capacity of 10 + (5 x highest Surge) charges.

Gaining and Losing Stormlight

You can inhale a number of Stormlight charges up to your standard capacity in a Beat, if there are sufficient sources within Close Range of you (see the Stormlight Sources Table).

You can spend any or all of your Stormlight charges in a Beat. Stormlight healing (see below) and Surges require spending Stormlight.


Stormlight Sources Table

Small change -- 2 charges
Pouch of spheres [Prop]; goblet of spheres used for reading light -- 20 charges
Stormlight lamp for lighting large rooms; large, finely-cut gem or small gemheart -- 40 charges
Chasmfiend's gemheart -- 100 charges
Center of a Highstorm -- Unlimited charges

Benefits of Stormlight
When holding at least one charge of Stormlight, you gain one die to all Physique rolls and your Health increases by 1. In addition, Stormlight charges can be spent to heal instantly.
10 Charges -- Restore 1 Health or remove one Serious Burden
25 Charges -- Restore 3 Health or remove one Grave Burden
40 Charges -- Restore 5 Health or remove a Mortal Burden

Stormlight Loss Over Time
If your current Stormlight charges are 10 or less, you lose one charge of Stormlight per hour. If you are a Surgebinder holding more than 10 charges, you lose 10 charges per minute (or one per Beat, in combat or similar situations with very short Beats).

Stormlight Exhaustion
When you lose or spend your last charge of Stormlight, the extra Health and bonus to Physique rolls goes away. Should this drop your Health to 0 you fall unconscious, and if it drops your Health below 0 you collapse and will die unless someone can stabilize you with a Wits 3 roll.

Furthermore, if you were holding more than 10 charges of Stormlight before the expenditure, you suffer a one-die penalty to all Physique rolls for ten minutes. Normal rules for pools below two dice apply.
Last edited by cometaryorbit on Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
cometaryorbit
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Re: Work in Progress: Stormlight Rules

Post by cometaryorbit » Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:33 pm

New Powers Options

Average:
Radiant Squire – You are a Squire of one of the Knights Radiant, or are just beginning to form a Nahel bond. You can hold Stormlight and gain its benefits, and you also gain one extra Trait or Stunt.

Shardbearer
– You carry one of the ancient and powerful Shardblades. You can summon and dismiss this mighty weapon at will.

Strong:
Surgebinder – You are a Surgebinder progressing along the ancient path of the Knights Radiant, with a Nahel Bond to a powerful spren, and have sworn at least the First Ideal. This bond gives you the ability to hold Stormlight and gain its benefits, as well as access to two Surges. You start with a rating of 4 in each of the two Surges appropriate to your Order. You also gain an extra Trait appropriate to your Order.

EDIT: added First Ideal/proto-Radiant stuff
Last edited by cometaryorbit on Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mac
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Re: Work in Progress: Stormlight Rules

Post by Mac » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:06 pm

I like seeing people working on homebrew expansions across the cosmere.
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Re: Work in Progress: Stormlight Rules

Post by cometaryorbit » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:00 pm

Mac wrote:I like seeing people working on homebrew expansions across the cosmere.
Thank you!

--

Shardblade: Damage +3, Range Striking/Striking.

Attacks with a Shardblade ignore damage reduction from armor and extra Defense Dice from shields (except for Shardplate and half-shard shields). Burdens inflicted by Shardblade attacks can only be healed by Powers.

A Shardblade can be summoned into the hand or dismissed, but summoning one takes ten heartbeats. Summoning a Shardblade and attacking with it can be done as a single action, but when doing so, the Shardblade user always acts last regardless of Action Dice.

WOR Spoilers:
Out Of Character: Click to revealShow
The live Shardblades wielded by Knights Radiant change shape and thus have Range Touch/Striking. There is no delay when summoning and attacking with such a Blade in the same Beat.
Kadrok
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Re: Work in Progress: Stormlight Rules

Post by Kadrok » Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:43 am

Are you aware of Herowannabe's Shardblade and Shardplate rules? As far as I'm aware he hasn't done Radiant rules yet, so perhaps you two should work together on this, otherwise we'll wind up with redundant homebrew rules.
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Re: Work in Progress: Stormlight Rules

Post by Mac » Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:08 am

Also, do you want to add in rules for spren? The benefits of having someone like Pattern who can perfectly mimic sounds or Syl who has invisibility (mostly) and speed and flight? Her ability to stick things and carry leaves is prolly of minimal use at best and can be left for roleplay, I'd imagine. How strong is it? If she sticks a sword in its sheath, can she stop someone from drawing a weapon in a given Beat?

EDIT: Also, frequently, after using stormlight for its strength enhancement, Surgebinders feel languid and tired afterwards. The only times I notice this being avoided are when you've used the stormlight specifically for Surgebinding (e.g., Shallan hides inside an illusion of a boulder for hours; the stormlight didn't sit around in her body giving her strength, she was just a conduit, draining her spheres at a steady pace to maintain the illusion. Which, btw, also a weird thing). Sometimes, as well, if Kaladin deliberately only invests a trace of stormlight, he doesn't seem especially wrung-out when he's done; it's possible the exhaustion is proportional, and therefore unnoticed? The amount he Invested for the Duel was enough to exhaust him when it was out, even though part of it went to Investing the helm (one more reason literally all of the people should have realized he was a Surgebinder).

So... maybe, when you run out of Stormlight in your system, you take a penalty to Physique equal to the most stormlight you had Invested at any one time? The duration determined by how long you Invested? So, Kaladin invests to get a +3 bonus to physique. He fights for a while, Lashing for three Beats, until he's almost out, so he Invests up to +5. Five more rounds later, he barely wins before he runs out of stormlight. Once it's gone, he takes a -5 penalty to his physique due to his sudden withdrawal. This penalty lasts for 8 Beats, or their equivalent in minutes/hours. Hrm. But what happens if within those eight Beats, he reInvests? Does it cancel the prior depletion? Prolong it, pause it?
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Re: Work in Progress: Stormlight Rules

Post by cometaryorbit » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:21 pm

Kadrok wrote:Are you aware of Herowannabe's Shardblade and Shardplate rules?
Yes. I wanted a simpler set of rules. I don't think a Power Rating or rolls to summon Shardblades are necessary, and I think this way of dealing with Shardblade Burdens is simpler (and makes Blades a bit less powerful EDIT: perhaps making up for my allowing them to be summoned faster).

I haven't settled on how I intend to do Plate yet because I don't see a way to fit it into the system that "works". It's too powerful for a Prop but not integral enough to the character for a Power -- not spiritually bonded to you like a Shardblade or Hemalurgic spike.

However, what I'd want it to do is...

Shardplate acts as steel plate (absorbing 3 damage) EDIT: even against Shardblades.

While charged, it adds five dice to Physique rolls and gives you +5 Health. Attacks that only damage this Health can't inflict Burdens*.

If the Shardplate's health is all removed, the Plate freezes up - the Physique bonus goes away, replaced with a penalty of three dice to Physique rolls (normal rules for pools below two dice apply).

*So if you have 8 natural Health+5 from Plate and take 4 damage, you don't get a Serious Burden, even though it's more than 1/4 your current Health of 13.

EDIT:
Kadrok wrote: otherwise we'll wind up with redundant homebrew rules.
I don't think that's necessarily a problem; individual groups can choose which they prefer. Nothing any of us make is going to be official anyway.
Mac wrote: Her ability to stick things and carry leaves is prolly of minimal use at best and can be left for roleplay, I'd imagine.
I'd agree.
How strong is it? If she sticks a sword in its sheath, can she stop someone from drawing a weapon in a given Beat?
I'd tend to say no, at least in game. Radiants are already going to be pretty powerful - their powers aren't as broad as Mistborn, but I'd say they're clearly stronger than (most) Twinborn since Surges are often broader than Allomantic metals (Kaladin's powers are a bit like aIron + aSteel except not limited to metal and he can Lash things to last a while without constantly Pushing on them; Soulcasting is very broad; Progression seems very powerful). And once they get a Shardblade...

So... maybe, when you run out of Stormlight in your system, you take a penalty to Physique equal to the most stormlight you had Invested at any one time? The duration determined by how long you Invested? So, Kaladin invests to get a +3 bonus to physique. He fights for a while, Lashing for three Beats, until he's almost out, so he Invests up to +5. Five more rounds later, he barely wins before he runs out of stormlight. Once it's gone, he takes a -5 penalty to his physique due to his sudden withdrawal. This penalty lasts for 8 Beats, or their equivalent in minutes/hours. Hrm. But what happens if within those eight Beats, he reInvests? Does it cancel the prior depletion? Prolong it, pause it?
Seems like it might get a bit too complex. I'm inclined to just treat it like aPewter and have problems only happen if you use it for ages or drop to 0 Health when you lose the boost.
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Re: Work in Progress: Stormlight Rules

Post by Mac » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:08 pm

cometaryorbit wrote:I haven't settled on how I intend to do Plate yet because I don't see a way to fit it into the system that "works". It's too powerful for a Prop but not integral enough to the character for a Power -- not spiritually bonded to you like a Shardblade or Hemalurgic spike.
You can mentally command Plate to release from you, and it molds to your body, and when you die it starts falling off of you. Are we sure the bond isn't spiritual in nature? If the bond is cognitive, why does that mean it cannot be a Power?
Seems like it might get a bit too complex. I'm inclined to just treat it like aPewter and have problems only happen if you use it for ages or drop to 0 Health when you lose the boost.
Eh. Simplicity's all well and good... but stormlight is already, as you've pointed out, pretty incredibly powerful. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable playing in a campaign where Surgebinders get all the positives, and all the negatives are ignored as "too complicated." It's pretty far along the road of, "Sure, you don't have to play a Surgebinder if you don't want to, you'll just be useless compared to the power-gamers." I don't play RPGs to powergame, and I much prefer character development and awesome descriptions. However, I can tell you from study and experience and years playing a variety of tabletop games and reading research papers, if your character is mechanically worthless, you lack agency, and none of your character development means anything. It's just shadow-puppetry, almost a completely different story that has nothing to do with the actual plot. In very rare circumstances, when everyone is conscious of what's going on and makes informed actions, it can be pulled off, but it's not as easy as just deciding it's so.

I'm not sure that "x penalty for n Beats" is really all that complicated, either. Make a note of the most you Invest at once, and keep track of how many turns you take. Done. (As for your "treat it like pewter" comparison: Allomantic pewter, in book, doesn't give you any special negative when you run out of it during normal use. Stormlight expressly does. Considering that this is what happens whenever someone Invests for strength in the books, it would feel sorta silly to just ignore it in the rules.) Why not just decide that no allomancer ever runs out of metal unless there's an Enhancement metal involved? Between deciding how long a Beat is, and what fraction of the time someone is Flaring, it's a lot more complicated to keep track of how many charges any allomancer has remaining, but we do that anyway.

If you want to get rid of stormlight withdrawal, how would you feel about a homerule saying that allomancers are assumed to have functionally infinite of any non-God metal, for balance and simplicity?

EDIT: Yes, I know Vin running out of metals is something that comes up in the books... but usually in circumstances rather extraordinary. She's been steeljumping around the city literally all night. She's been fighting or running for hours. She's been trapped in a cellar for a week. It's never because someone managed to successfully play hide-and-seek for two minutes.
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Re: Work in Progress: Stormlight Rules

Post by cometaryorbit » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:59 am

Mac wrote:
cometaryorbit wrote:I haven't settled on how I intend to do Plate yet because I don't see a way to fit it into the system that "works". It's too powerful for a Prop but not integral enough to the character for a Power -- not spiritually bonded to you like a Shardblade or Hemalurgic spike.
You can mentally command Plate to release from you, and it molds to your body, and when you die it starts falling off of you. Are we sure the bond isn't spiritual in nature? If the bond is cognitive, why does that mean it cannot be a Power?
Quite possibly.

A better phrasing would be that Hemalurgic spikes are in your body, and Shardblades can be summoned to your hand at any time... but Shardplate users we see don't wear their Shardplate most of the time, and can't summon it to them. It seems too easy to steal/sabotage/etc to spend a Power slot or Advancements on.
Eh. Simplicity's all well and good... but stormlight is already, as you've pointed out, pretty incredibly powerful.
The full Radiant power-set is quite powerful, though not I think out of the range of Strong Powers already (I'd say stronger than Twinborn, comparable to a Mistborn with just the 8 metals, and weaker than a Mistborn with the WoA/HoA metals like Duralumin and Electrum).

I think Stormlight itself as I've set it up is pretty balanced for an Average power, so that a Squire/proto-Radiant is fairly level with Mistings (EDIT: clearly weaker than Pewter, the strongest Misting, and only slightly stronger than Koloss-blooded, whose power is "on" 100% of the time).
It's pretty far along the road of, "Sure, you don't have to play a Surgebinder if you don't want to, you'll just be useless compared to the power-gamers."
I think it would be less so than Mistborn in the base game, since a Mistborn has a wider range of powers than a Radiant.
(As for your "treat it like pewter" comparison: Allomantic pewter, in book, doesn't give you any special negative when you run out of it during normal use. Stormlight expressly does.
When I read it, it wasn't clear to me that was a real reduction in strength rather than exhaustion as a result of pushing your body beyond its limits (which can hurt you with Pewter).
If you want to get rid of stormlight withdrawal, how would you feel about a homerule saying that allomancers are assumed to have functionally infinite of any non-God metal, for balance and simplicity?
But you'd still have to track Stormlight charges, so it's not like the powers would be limitless. And I plan to make Surgebinding pretty charge-heavy, to make up for its power (just like how Pewter is the fastest-burning basic metal because it's the strongest).
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Re: Work in Progress: Stormlight Rules

Post by Mac » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:29 pm

What about holding to Ideals? Will the Narrator ascribe some penalty if he feels a Windrunner is harming someone without express intent to protect? If a Lightweaver insufficiently explores self-awareness? If an Edgedancer fails to exhibit sufficient mercy? If any Surgebinder kills without seeming to look for a non-fatal alternative?

EDIT: I realize that Stormlight withdrawal is exhaustion, rather than a magic atrophying of muscles, but if the end result is a decrease in strength and endurance, I cannot think of a better way to express that than a Physique penalty. I believe the skaa supplement has poisons that inflict physique penalties, yes no? What would be a better way, do you think, to give people a scaling penalty for Stormlight use? Even if it's not fully accurate, it's very simple, so it fits in with the rest of your rules.

Tracking Stormlight charges is a penalty, sure, but if we're simply going to ignore negatives in the interest of simplicity, why can't we do the same thing with alomancy?

I'm not sure that analysis supports your idea that a Surgebinder is no more broken than a Mistborn (and also, I am not sure that I believe the original game is without being a little broken, itself). You claim that a Mistborn is more utilitarian. A mistborn has:

Pewter for fighting (and a few other powers)
Iron and steel are basically one power.
That goes double for zinc/brass
Bronze
Copper is nice, but not the most utile of powers (unless people want to use my home rules, ku ku ku...)
Duralumin

The following powers aren't available to a Mistborn in an era when Mistborn (besides the Lord Mistborn) are a thing:
Bendalloy, Nicrosil, Chromium.

Aluminum is wholly worthless, tin, seriously, when does someone in-game use tin? In books it's slightly better.

So we've got a Mistborn, with roughly six useful powers. Atium is insanely expensive and rare, so I'm not counting it as something a Mistborn can count on outside of extraordinary circumstances.

Now let's look at a Surgebinder.

They all have something the equivalent of pewter.
And feruchemical gold (an insanely useful power).
Shardblade, which is practically a suite of powers itself.
Double for Shardplate.
A spren, for spying, distracting, unlocking things, memorizing, remote projection of powers, sarcasm... again, basically a suite of powers.
You can just use all of your Stormlight at once, so functionally they all have duralumin.

So... before we've gotten to a single Surge, we're already tied in "useful powers". I would be interested in knowing how you came to the conclusion that a Mistborn has utility beyond a Surgebinder.
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