Match #1 Shardbearer vs. Coinshot and Thug

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Claincy
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Re: Match #1 Shardbearer vs. Coinshot and Thug

Post by Claincy » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:34 am

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Mac wrote:As the dead guy, I am fully in favor of a draw.
Heh, despite being dead I think you are going to win. Xhadar just doesn't have an effective way to deal with a coinshot.
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Re: Match #1 Shardbearer vs. Coinshot and Thug

Post by Mac » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:27 pm

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You can chuck stuff at him. It's not a perfect option, but in two or three turns you'll get a lucky strike and deal a ton of damage. You could stand there with your eyes closed and your back turned, and let him pelt you with coins; it would still take him forever to actually damage you. Especially since you could spend at least a turn or two simply letting him whale on you, committing all dice to offense, and he doesn't have the same luxury.
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Re: Match #1 Shardbearer vs. Coinshot and Thug

Post by Kadrok » Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:52 pm

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What do I do? I seem to recall stepping away from my foe and towards the bow, while shootinf. Can I do that again, always keeping so far from the Shardbearer that he can't hit me next beat, but close enough to launch a weight. As for the weight distribution, where are they right now? Am I still carrying any or are any close by. I would think some would have clanged off my foe and landed somewhere nearby. Did I remember to launch a bunch in every direction?
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Re: Match #1 Shardbearer vs. Coinshot and Thug

Post by Claincy » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:48 pm

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Here's what I am thinking, Ser would have been smart enough to grab, say 3, weights when he moved. He is able to move faster than Xhadar and he can push the weights from further than Xhadar can throw them. He is however limited a bit by the size of the arena. Basically how I am envisioning it currently the general effect of the circumstances would be that Ser could atttack every beat and Xhadar would only be able to attack every second beat (or maybe 2 on 2 off would make more sense) as he backs Ser towards a wall and Ser moves past him to the side before moving out of range again. Does something like that sound reasonable?
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Re: Match #1 Shardbearer vs. Coinshot and Thug

Post by Kadrok » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:08 pm

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Not really. I thought the arena was bigger than that. My intention was to circle around attacking without ever being attacked, since if Ser is ever attacked it is pretty much over. Hence me taking Steel Running. Yeah, it's kind of boring, but we are here to test Shard weapons, and the lack of a speed enhancement appears to be the only weakness it has right now... (Damage Prevention is very powerful I have learned. In the first IRL game we played, the narrator carelessly gave plate to an AV without realising that he effectively doomed the player fighting him to a slow death. He had to pull out some bulls*** mysterious Obligator character to magically kill the AV so he wouldn't kill the player. In the second IRL game with the same narrator, he accidentally killed my character because he misjudged our ability to handle a horde of Koloss... fun times. What was I talking about? Oh yes... if it came down to the Shardbearer ever getting a hit, Ser would start skipping attacks to take extra steps to avoid him. Like I said, McShardbearer ever getting a hit is game over.
You'll recall I recommended Mac take something other than a Pewterarm for this very reason.
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Re: Match #1 Shardbearer vs. Coinshot and Thug

Post by Claincy » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:56 pm

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Oh he is never going to get into melee range, not a chance. I was talking about the somewhat difficult prospect of throwing weights at Ser.
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Re: Match #1 Shardbearer vs. Coinshot and Thug

Post by Kadrok » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:44 am

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Oh, that's easy. Ser has Steel Defle... NOOOOO! I dropped 'Steel Deflection' for 'Steel Running'. Whooo. Game on then!
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Re: Match #1 Shardbearer vs. Coinshot and Thug

Post by Mac » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:54 am

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Kadrok wrote:You'll recall I recommended Mac take something other than a Pewterarm for this very reason.
...Seriously? You're blaming this on me, now? I've done twice as much damage as you did, and I did it all while soaking his every attack AND while he was using all of his defense dice against me, leaving himself wide-open for you. Please don't publicly claim that the only issue is that I'm not smart enough to do everything you tell me to.
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Re: Match #1 Shardbearer vs. Coinshot and Thug

Post by Kadrok » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:07 am

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Woah, I'm not blaming anything on you, and your damage is appreciated. I was merely pointing out that I've been of the "never get hit by the Shardbearer" school of thought since before this began, and that I'd therefore be disappointed with any arrangement that allowed Claincy to ever hit Ser(with a Shardblade).

Sorry if it seemed like I was accusing you.

If we'd both gone Pewter do you reckon we could have taken him? (Genuine question, not being sarcastic or rhetorical)
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Re: Match #1 Shardbearer vs. Coinshot and Thug

Post by Mac » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:30 am

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Actually taken him? I doubt it, since it's my opinion, as I've said multiple times during planning and as this combat has gone on, the rules for a Shardbearer are ludicrously overpowered. I think the results are bearing me out here, as he's slaughtered a Thug with superficial damage and the only Coinshot left is statistically unlikely to deal any more damage any time soon. Would we have done significantly more damage to him by now if we'd both been Pewter Mistings? Yes. Two-on-one is a huge advantage in this game. Whichever of us he hit first with his Shardbow, the other would have entered combat entirely unscathed. Nudges are simply extra damage to me; I already hit hard enough that simply hitting him will cause damage. Hitting him with an extra unopposed Thug while he spent his rounds killing me would have him significantly weaker right now than he is. Right now, you-the-Thug would be hitting him and causing damage, and he might even start taking negatives to his attack rolls because he'd be below 5 gemstones.

Would we win? Prolly not. Even at negatives, his Shardblade is simply an enormously overpowered weapon. You're right in that engaging with him where he can hit us with the Shardblade means we lose. You're wrong in your belief that there's any way besides bringing in a Keeper to beat someone as overpowered as a Shardbearer. You're operating under the premise that there has to be a "right answer", that if we're tactically smart enough we can overcome his multiple enormous advantages. This is his match to lose. Our only real hope was to act optimally and hope that Claincy did something so suicidally unsound that we could exploit it and win; to win, all he had to do was not make any huge blunders.

You've succeeded in making a character it's difficult, but not impossible, for him to hit. You failed to make a character with any statistically likely chance to deal any more damage. He's got a better chance of pegging you with a thrown weight than you do of hitting him, and when he does hit you, he's guaranteed to do a lot of damage; you need to not only beat him, but also get two Nudges if you want to deal a single point of damage. If he hits you, that's an automatic 1, +2 (weights), + however many nudges he gets. Am I forgetting anything else? You'll be dead in three hits, and you'll take a Grave Burden at the first, and a Serious one at the second. Meantime, you will need to not only hit him but also get at minimum 2 Nudges if you wish to scratch him, and you'll have to do that seven more times before the Plate stops soaking damage and you can finally start hitting the actual man.

If Claincy can't figure out a way to stop your literal eternal retreat, you could try to run out the clock for 28 more days and force a draw, if it takes Claincy longer than that to score three lucky hits. You have absolutely no way to win. But don't feel bad. You never did.
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