Match #2: Atium-burning Mistborn vs. Steelrunner

The Arena itself, all duels take place here.

Postby Kurkistan » Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:49 pm

Out of Character. Click to reveal.
Overview:

Mac's idea to test out how good Atium is.

I took him up on it first and designed a speedster Ferring called Gonzalez.

Mac made Sylvester the Mistborn.

The setting is:

Mac wrote:An abandoned factory. There are some pillars and some old equipment around. A couple of anchors for me to push on but nothing loose that I can use as a projectile. The room is big enough that if I stand in the center, the four corners are at Long distance; four Steps will take you from one corner to the other. The whole place is too big for me to cover everywhere at once with my steel, but it's small enough that I can reasonably press you into a corner and at least get a shot at you as you run out of range again.


Our Narrator is Honor. We'll call in someone else if we have a conflict, but this ought'a be a quick round, so hopefully we can just hash it out between ourselves.

I'll start us off for the conflict.


Sylvester stands against a pillar in the center abandoned warehouse, reading over a colleague's paper and making numerous critical comments in the margins. He'd been doing near the same for the last week, hoping to have some original research of his own to publish shortly.

He turns as he hears a sound from the entrance: A man in plate—a rare sight—with a dueling cane and shield had walked in the warehouse, immediately spotting the mistborn.

Sylvester puts down the paper and picks up his shield sword, glad that he'd worn his own plate for today's experiment.

"Is it too much to hope that you're trying to kill me, rather than just being a heavily-armed sightseer?"

The approaching man pauses, the anger that had been building in his face briefly giving way to puzzlement. Then back to anger.

"You killed my father. Then you put out an ad in the paper saying you'd be here alone ready to face justice. Are you mad?"

Sylvester chuckles briefly, then resumes his serious mien. "Alas, I've found that the best way to motivate a good, to-the-death fight is the murder of relatives. And I'd like to note that the ad said I'd 'allow his kin to seek justice', not that I'd willingly accept it."

With that, Sylvester downed his metal vials—one of all the basic metals and one of his dearly-acquired atium—and the two squared off.

Out of Character. Click to reveal.
Currently at Close range at the dead center of the warehouse, with Sylvester burning atium so he gets to declare last and act first.

I think the best way to go about "narrating" would be for whoever wins the roll (defender or attacker) to narrate the whole sequence, and we'll just do declarations/rolls in OOC.

So, to that end, Gonzalez intends to take a step into Striking and attack Sylvester.
Last edited by Kurkistan on Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Kurkistan » Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:52 pm

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Sure sure, sorry if I jumped the gun. Tell me if you want me to cut out all/any of my Sylvester stuff from the OP.

And now Mac's post that I was replying to is gone...
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Postby Mac » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:01 pm

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Sorry, you had edited yours to include that by the time I asked the question so I just deleted it.

Minor note: I do not believe I have a shield.

One thing I've always wondered about movement... I assume it's cool with everyone if I spend my turn also taking a step in to striking, and then hitting you first. It would be ludicrous to either assume that you have to re-declare your action and take the penalty because now you're not stepping, or to force you to take that step, now back to Close range, and be unable to hit me. Is it cool if we hand-wave it away as, we each take a step and egage, my attempt happens first, and our negative circumstances cancel out?

Regardless, I am going to flare pewter and burn atium, and hit you with my sword.

My action pool will be 4+5pewter+4atium+2traits(reading atium shadows, quick reflexes)= 15.

I choose to attack with 10, saving 5 for defense. How many do you plan to defend with?

EDIT: Because I did the math wrong

Also, what action will you declare NEXT beat?
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Postby Kurkistan » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:15 pm

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Yup, that sword/shield was a brainfart. You'll note that even the structure of the sentence would have been "his own shield" if I'd meant to write that... Sorry, fixed.

Yeah, I think it's perfectly fine to wave it away when the two characters are mutually moving towards one another. Let's just say they both take a step and there's no circumstance penalty for either.

----

Next Beat, I intend to attack you.

---

My pool is 6 + 2 for Traits (Assassin and Dodge the Bullet) + 1 for the Shield for 9 before tapping Steel.

For this roll, I'll use 2 "real" dice and tap 8 Steel for a pool of 10. 7 Dice left over.

If you don't mind, since we've both specified our roll-sizes, I'll just roll for both of us to keep the ball rolling. You can do the same when I attack.

Sylvester's attack:
Kurkistan rolled 10d6:
2, 3, 6, 5, 4, 6, 2, 1, 6, 2


Gonzalez's defense:
Kurkistan rolled 10d6:
2, 3, 2, 3, 6, 6, 6, 5, 3, 1


2n3 vs. 3n3, defense wins.

Normally I'd narrate this defense, but you got 3 Nuges, so... would you like to Catch a beat?
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Postby Mac » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:25 pm

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Yes, and I will attack again with my remaining five dice. The roll will be in the last OOC. Please decide how many dice you will commit to defense before looking at it to see how well I rolled, as I believe those are the rules.


EDIT: Question...

Out of Character. Click to reveal.
Also, this may be a minor point but I was under the impression that specifically defensive traits can only be used in actual defensive actions, you can't take advantage of it when you're building an Action Pool for an attack, nor can you add it to your Defense Dice if they're coming from a pool for offensive action. I could be mistaken.


Out of Character. Click to reveal.
Mac rolled 5d6:
5, 3, 5, 1, 3
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Postby Kurkistan » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:35 pm

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I'll roll 3 normal dice + 2 Steel for a total of 5; 10 charges of fSteel used so far, 5 4 dice left over.

To your question: I think we're a tad in the air about that (attacking normally kind of includes defending by default, and the like) but I see you're point. I'll reduce my pool by 1 dice.

Kurkistan rolled 5d6:
2, 2, 3, 5, 6


EDIT: You win and so get to describe the whole sequence, culminating in your sword making a small dent in an inconsequential part of my armor. ;)


Unfixed rule mistake made: You can only use Nudges/catch a beat on a successful attack.

Out of Character. Click to reveal.
EDIT: Actually, if you want to go whole-hog here, we could start messing with Outcomes and Complications and the like, in which case Gonzalez is about to suffer a -2-level Complication.

EDIT 2: Oops, never mind. Complications only affect attackers, not defenders. They're complicated. :(

Do you want to start using them, though? You're Nudges would stop any complications for the first attack, so we wouldn't have to retcon anything.
Last edited by Kurkistan on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Mac » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:37 pm

Gonzalez stepped forward, but his atium shadow preceded him. Sylvester stepped into the forthcoming attack, swinging his own sword in to attack... but unfortunately Gonzalez's incredibly speed was able to compensate, allowing the ferring to nimbly twist out of the path of the blade. The moment, and Syl's own familiarity with atium, allowed him to follow through into another strike, but unfortunately, though it connected, the armor seemed to block all of the force.

Syl could only watch, and brace, as his opponent's atium shadow foretold an attack too fast for his reaction...
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Postby Kurkistan » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:47 pm

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Nice narration. Note my talk of Complications up above that I EDITED in.

Also note that you'll get 4 free Defense dice for that atium no matter what, I believe.

I'll roll all 4 normal dice + 6 Steel charges for 10 dice.

On top of that, I'll tap 20 charges for 4 auto-Nudges and 10 more for +1 Outcome. Roll in the next OOC.

Total cost of action: 36 charges. 46 spent this beat.

Upon landing the attack (if I do) I think a point of damage to me wouldn't be amiss.


Out of Character. Click to reveal.
Kurkistan rolled 10d6:
4, 3, 3, 5, 3, 6, 6, 5, 3, 5


6n6. 6 Damage and a Serious Burden (the flared Pewter puts you at 13) coming your way no matter what, I think.
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Postby Mac » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:05 pm

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I have not yet read your second OOC post, so I don't know how you've rolled. However, we seem to have a difference of opinion.

Since both attack and defense are drawn from a single Action Pool, I had always assumed that they were all considered to be just one big Action. If that's the case, I would not get any more dice to roll in my own defense, since I already gained those 4 dice.

Similarly, if the entire thing is considered one big action, you're now 6 charges of Steel more than you could possibly have tapped for the current action.

However, you clearly seem to consider that the attack and the defense are two distinct actions, and each one benefits from "once an action" abilities as we've seen so far. While I disagree, the point is largely moot, so I have no objection to proceeding thusly.

If that were the case, wasn't "catching a beat" an additional action on my part? If so, I should get to roll four more dice from that, and any nudges I get would be applied to you as damage. Additionally, as you've stated, I will get four dice now in defense.

Lastly, we need an objective ruling on damage here. If your unaugmented human physiology is hitting me with enough feruchemical speed to make your body travel at speeds of 100mph and damage me inside of my armor, I do not concede that your body will suffer no worse than a single point of damage.

As I've said elsewhere, you deal an extra point of damage for every 5 charges spent; with no way to absorb the return shock, in my biased opinion I would say that you should take the same amount, so 7 points of damage for the 36 charges of speed you tapped to attack, and I think it should be applied whether you successfully hit me or not (logically, if I block your blow, that's even MORE force being applied back to your body rather than to me).

In the interests of speed, I offer the following compromise if we don't want to wait around for someone to make an impartial ruling: For every 10 (or part of 10) charges spent on Nudges or Outcome, you will take 1 point of damage, hit or miss. Thus, the six charges you spent to increase your attack number account for the non-direct conflict benefits you got (how much you can gain by maneuvering around me faster than I can react), and Nudges and Outcome are representative of you simply building up speed to deal enough force that you overwhelm my armor. As such, you will take 3 points of damage, hit me or not. If it makes you feel any better, unless your roll (which I still have not looked at) is terrible, you'll still be dealing at minimum 4 points of damage to me, plus however many nudges you got in your own roll.

In conclusion, I'm awaiting your answer on two things.

1. Do you agree that, if every individual attack and defense is a separate action, I am due four more dice in my second attack on you? If not, if every attack and defense is all just one giant action, you have spent more charges of steel than you are allowed to.

2. What are your thoughts on my proposed compromise on a steel Ferring taking damage between our two extremes?

Finally, I will look up Complications in the rules and get back to you.
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Postby Kurkistan » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:32 pm

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I'm fairly certain they count as separate actions.

This from the Feruchemy section (pg 282):

"A Feruchemist may choose to tap anytime he or she takes an action or makes a roll. Charges are tapped after an action is declared and pools are formed (see Dice Pools, page 140), but before the dice are rolled. During a Conflict, a Feruchemist taps charges during Step 2: Resolve Actions, after forming a pool from his or her Action Dice (see page 179). This timing lets the Feruchemist fully assess a situation and take into account any Traits, Tools, and Circumstances that may apply to his or her roll before committing charges to the effort."

Also, Gonzalez is a rating 5 Ferring, which I guessed in accordance with how Mistings are better at their metals than Mistborn. If you'd prefer we can nerf him to rating 4.

----

I'm betting this was some bias sneaking into play when I didn't notice you making that mistake, but you're entirely right (so far as I can see) that you should have gotten an additional 4 dice when you caught that beat. How about we both just roll 4 more (costing me four more charges of Steel) and then add those dice to the initial rolls and re-jigger the Outcome accordingly?

This is covered a bit in the "Extra Dice" portion of Hero's thread.

---

On Steel-damage:

I've replied to your initial point and perhaps we ought to ask for someone else to weigh in at this point if you don't find my own reply persuasive.

To expand a bit here on your new matter...

I'm conflicted (likely bias talking). Particularly about this "you take damage no matter what" stipulation. It seems, actually, that this might be an excellent opportunity to introduce Complications as a thing that actually matter. So the degree to which I damage myself on a failed attack could in fact be a matter of how thoroughly I mess it up.

If I have enough Nudges to negate the Outcome to a simple 0, then, then we narrate it as the attack missing. If I have -2 Outcome, though, then it's narrated as you firmly blocking the attack and I'm taking 2 damage for my troubles.

So in response to your numbered questions:

1. You should get the extra dice, definitely.

2. See my above comments and the ones in the initial thread.

EDIT: Sp.
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