The Big Reveal thread

A place to plan, scheme, and discuss what to do in Dying Light.
Kurkistan
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Re: The Big Reveal thread

Post by Kurkistan » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:58 pm

Herowannabe wrote:Thanks Tec! Though you left out one very important detail about Gash. I hope you don't mind if I share it with everyone: Gash was a mole in the crew. Hoid, as his mentor, saddled him with the task of making sure that the assassination attempt on Elend Venture failed. As it turned out, none of the players were ever actually all that committed to the plan to kill Elend, so Gash never really had to do any sabotaging.

As for him being an Awakener, that's one secret I'm really surprised nobody ever guessed at. I mean, after all, I had created the Awakening house rules long before I made the Shardblade/plate rules, and once it became clear that Claincy/Gen/Khav was running around with a shardblade, I thought for sure someone would start to wonder if I had decided to incorporate the Awakening rules into the campaign, too, and start looking askance at the other members of the crew.

For the record, I strongly hinted that Awakening was at play, specifically in this post. "The Wanderer" in this interlude is of course Hoid, and "The Messenger" is a strawman awakened by Gash to deliver the letter. Tecslicer dropped a couple hints, too, (IIRC at one point he went shopping for some brightly colored nobleman's clothing), but for the most part he kept his awakening abilities on the down-low.
Yeah okay I feel silly for not reading more into the scene with Hoid. :?

The whole "is a mole" thing definitely adds some context to my Spiritual insights:
Insights:
Q: "How much can I trust [Gash]?"
--Specifically, "Can I trust him not to betray the interests of the group?"
A: No, your gut tells you that he is not committed to the crew.
Q: "Can I trust him not to backstab _me_ in the interests of the group/himself?"
A: However, you have no reason to suspect that he would turn on you.
----
Q: "What's his breaking point for when he'd betray the crew?"
A: I've been debating all day whether to allow this question, and if so, how to answer it. I think I will, but all I'm going to say in response to the question is this:
Your instincts whisper that Gash has other allegiances that are more important to him than the crew is.
I don't feel too bad about not noticing the Awakening character, honestly. I thought we'd met our quota for worldhopping with Khav, and most of my/Fidel's efforts after we found out about the Shardblade were centered around trying to investigate it for Father. I shall, however, proceed to roundly make fun of Art who spent a lot more time/effort on Gash. :P
Last edited by Kurkistan on Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BubbaFett1936
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Re: The Big Reveal thread

Post by BubbaFett1936 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:18 pm

Petty looks aghast at the rest of the crew.

"What is wrong with you people!? Are none of you who you purport to be?"

Seriously, though, was Petty the only one committed to the job they had undertaken? Even after Jaira's death--perhaps even more so following finding her body--Petty was going to see Elend dead, as far as he could see it done safely. In case you didn't assume, anyway, Petty had something akin to feelings for Jaira, and would consider it something like her dying request to see the job done. He would probably have fought Gash, if it had come to that.

Hey, who wants to see that happen, anyway? I'm game if Tec is.
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Re: The Big Reveal thread

Post by Kurkistan » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:25 pm

BubbaFett1936 wrote:Petty had something akin to feelings for Jaira, and would consider it something like her dying request to see the job done. He would probably have fought Gash, if it had come to that.
For what it’s worth that was her dying request.

E: Unrelated note: that was also the scene where I got me a free hemalurgic spike. 3:D

E2: I suppose this is as good a time as any: @Hero was the voice in my head TLR or Ruin? What about the one that wanted me to kill Khav?
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Re: The Big Reveal thread

Post by Bill Whitmore » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:29 pm

I wasn't in this game very long before backing out so I don't have as many stories and conjectures as most of you. but Shane did have his own secrets.

Chief among those is that Shane was not actually a merchant at all. His real name was Bergeron Elariel. He was a Noble member of the Assembly. Bergeron had been working in secret to pave the way to taking over as the de facto ruler, garnering influence, power and resources behind the scenes. Confident that he had all the pieces in place, he needed a catalyst to sow chaos so he could then ride in and save the day.

In a way, it was kind of like Star Wars: A Phantom Menace. He needed to create a problem that he was perfectly positioned to solve. Plus, Elend was the biggest obstacle to his goal, so killing him would both create the problem and remove an obstacle.

So Bergeron was the man behind the scenes that hired the crew with the task of killing Elend. Bergeron joined the crew as Shane to both monitor their progress and aid in the task any way he could.
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Re: The Big Reveal thread

Post by Tecslicer » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:25 am

Kurkistan wrote:Were you planning on murder-killing Art if he turned out to be pious? Would you have murder-killed BeiStahl if you found out the details of kandra religion?
Art, yes. BeiStahl, I don't know. I doubt I'd have needed to kill BeiStahl. Gash was mainly interested in killing those who wanted to evangelize or teach about their god. Though I might have given Art a pass. It all depended on how I interacted with Ruin and Preservation. The god of these people had just been killed, (FALSE god!!!!!) so his priests needed to die. But if I had learned about Ruin and Preservation, or if I had found something ELSE to not kill for... I WAS tempted...


And yeah! I had forgotten that Gashalt was a mole... probably BECAUSE everybody was really not into the mission. Hard to work AGAINST people that are Ruin bent on working WITH you.
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Re: The Big Reveal thread

Post by Herowannabe » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:22 am

BubbaFett1936 wrote:Seriously, though, was Petty the only one committed to the job they had undertaken?
Probably, yeah. You and Shane, anyway. I think everyone else (aside from Gash) was more or less willing to go along with it, but nobody really had their hearts set on it.
BubbaFett1936 wrote:He would probably have fought Gash, if it had come to that.

Hey, who wants to see that happen, anyway? I'm game if Tec is.
Well there is this little section of the site called The Arena... Just saying. ;)
Kurkistan wrote:@Hero was the voice in my head TLR or Ruin? What about the one that wanted me to kill Khav?
This one takes a little bit of explaining. So when we started the campaign and BeiStahl started hearing the Lord Ruler's voice in his head, my plan was for it to be Ruin (it was never actually the Lord Ruler's voice). But then, Shadows of Self came out and we got a glimpse into the possibility of other Shards dabbling with hemalurgy on Scadrial, and it got me thinking. At that point in the campaign nothing had necessarily happened that definitely said the voice was Ruin's, so I changed what I was planning. Or at the very least, I began to leave myself open for various possibilities. I never fully decided on a plan 100% for BeiStahl, but I was leaning towards something like this:

BeiStahl's spike that allowed him to use Allomantic Copper was going to turn out to be one of Trell's spikes (or possibly a spike from another non-scadrian deity). This is why the secret Kandra group that BeiStahl was a part of had never been able to get Hemalurgy to grant powers to any other Kandra- they only had the one Trellish (Trellic?) spike. They knew something was sketchy about it, so they gave it to BeiStahl and were keeping a close eye on him, to see if it affected him, but without letting him know what was going on.

So the voice inside BeiStahl's head was Trell (or whoever), and was working on subverting BeiStahl and trying to make him into their puppet. They wanted BeiStahl to get ahold of Khav's shardblade because of the destructive potential it had. When Khav got spiked, it was by a regular (Ruin-aligned) spike, and Trell (or whoever) flipped out and took control of BeiStahl because they didn't want the shardblade in the hands of one of Ruin's minions. Or roughly something along those lines. Like I said the details weren't all 100% established yet.

I was also toying around with the idea of, further down the storyline, having the Heirs get ahold of more Trellish spikes and getting powers, and then also falling under Trells control. BeiStahl would have had to face some hard Tragedy/Destiny decisions about whether to keep his spike and continue working with the heirs or to turn against them.

Anyway, now that Bill has popped in, I think the only one still missing is Claincy. Most of his secrets already came out through the course of gameplay, so I'm going to go ahead and unlock all the subforums, in case anyone wants to explore or show off certain threads.

I'll get to revealing the rest of my Narrator plans soon (right now it's past midnight and I'm tired so I'm going to go to bed).
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Re: The Big Reveal thread

Post by Kurkistan » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:21 am

Herowannabe wrote:
Kurkistan wrote:@Hero was the voice in my head TLR or Ruin? What about the one that wanted me to kill Khav?
This one takes a little bit of explaining. So when we started the campaign and BeiStahl started hearing the Lord Ruler's voice in his head, my plan was for it to be Ruin (it was never actually the Lord Ruler's voice). But then, Shadows of Self came out and we got a glimpse into the possibility of other Shards dabbling with hemalurgy on Scadrial, and it got me thinking. At that point in the campaign nothing had necessarily happened that definitely said the voice was Ruin's, so I changed what I was planning. Or at the very least, I began to leave myself open for various possibilities. I never fully decided on a plan 100% for BeiStahl, but I was leaning towards something like this:

BeiStahl's spike that allowed him to use Allomantic Copper was going to turn out to be one of Trell's spikes (or possibly a spike from another non-scadrian deity). This is why the secret Kandra group that BeiStahl was a part of had never been able to get Hemalurgy to grant powers to any other Kandra- they only had the one Trellish (Trellic?) spike. They knew something was sketchy about it, so they gave it to BeiStahl and were keeping a close eye on him, to see if it affected him, but without letting him know what was going on.

So the voice inside BeiStahl's head was Trell (or whoever), and was working on subverting BeiStahl and trying to make him into their puppet. They wanted BeiStahl to get ahold of Khav's shardblade because of the destructive potential it had. When Khav got spiked, it was by a regular (Ruin-aligned) spike, and Trell (or whoever) flipped out and took control of BeiStahl because they didn't want the shardblade in the hands of one of Ruin's minions. Or roughly something along those lines. Like I said the details weren't all 100% established yet.

I was also toying around with the idea of, further down the storyline, having the Heirs get ahold of more Trellish spikes and getting powers, and then also falling under Trells control. BeiStahl would have had to face some hard Tragedy/Destiny decisions about whether to keep his spike and continue working with the heirs or to turn against them.
So you're saying I was never obeying the dictates of Father?! :o

Yeah okay maybe I sort of suspected that. I held out some hope that at least some of the voices I heard were him, though. :(

Once again something I didn't suspect: I thought it was either TLR or Ruin, not some dark horse candidate. Could have been interesting.

Also: Damnit! I could have kept my pet alien if I hadn't snuck out the window...

@Bill

Ah, interesting. So he was pulling a bit of a Keyser Söze, looks like. Might have been interesting if Khav (that traitor 3:( ) ran into Shane while working for Venture.

e: @Hero:

Was I waiting on Claincy's actions here?
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Re: The Big Reveal thread

Post by Herowannabe » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:30 am

Kurkistan wrote:e: @Hero:

Was I waiting on Claincy's actions here?
I believe so. IIRC Khav heard you sneak out of the house and so he snuck out, too. He debated following you, and then decided to simply run off on his own instead.
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Re: The Big Reveal thread

Post by Herowannabe » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:17 am

Alright, Narrator secrets time.

First let me preface this by saying as a Narrator/GM/Storyteller I have found that I am really good at coming up with an interesting beginning, and I usually have a fairly good idea of where I want to end up, but the in between stuff is usually pretty hazy. *cue the south park clip about stealing socks and making profits* So for a lot of this not even I know what was going to happen because I hadn’t planned it out yet or (more likely) I was just planning on improvising and playing off of what you guys ended up doing.

Let’s start with my short term plans for each character- what I was planning to do next for everybody.

The Crew as a whole
I really liked the idea of starting this next chapter out with the crew scattered and leaderless. I wanted to give everyone the freedom to pursuit their own goals without the crew or the assassination plot (which most people weren't really committed to) getting in the way. That's the main reason why I killed off Jaira in the last chapter- she was just getting in the way of all of that.

Khav/Gen
For anyone who didn’t know (actually- did anyone even know? I think Fidel/BeiStahl/Kurk knew where he went but I'm not 100% sure on that) after the Inquisitor attack and subsequent attempted betrayal by Fidel, Khav ran off on his own and ended up getting picked up by the night watch. He ended up spilling the whole assassination plot which earned him a small encounter with King Elend Venture, as well as a position as a scout in Elend’s army.

The next chapter I was planning on having Hoid pay Khav a visit- in disguise- to tell a story and mess with him a bit. That’s about all I had immediately planned for Khav.

Fidel/BeiStahl
(Technically not Fidel actually, since Kurk was switching bodies in the interlude.

BeiStahl was planning on tracking down Khav, but he was going to be frustrated on that, at least in the short term. He was going to find out that Khav had joined Elend's army, but then the trail would die there. Infiltrating the army was going to prove slow going and difficult, in part because of heightened security and paranoia in Elend's army due to rumors of another Kandra infiltration (TenSoon).

Instead, I was planning on having BeiStahl have a chance encounter with Shane, but in his true persona of Lord Bergeron Elariel, and then see how things played out from there.

Eventually Fidel would have tracked down Khav, but I hadn't planned out exactly when/where/how.

Artwar and Petty
Already told my short-term plans for them earlier in the thread.

Shane/Bergeron
Now relegated to NPC status. See my plans for BeiStahl. Oh, I should also mention that the next chapter was going to start with when the Assembly deposes Elend, so going forward Bergeron wasn't going to press the assassination angle, at least not as hard anymore. There wasn't as much need now that Elend had been brought down a few notches, so Bergeron was going to focus his efforts on manipulating the assembly to give him what he wants.

Gash
After Tecslicer withdrew he was replaced by Fishrage, who then also disappeared. So by this point Gash is an NPC and the assassination plot is more or less kaput, so there wasn't really any need for Gash to be hanging around in the story. So I was going to let Gash go AWOL for a while until such a time as I thought it would be fun to reintroduce him.

The other NPCs
Jaira died. Locks died. Jerrard took a serious gut-wound in the inquisitor fight, but thanks to pewter he was going to pull through more or less just fine. After everyone including the inquisitors left the room where you fought the inquisitors, Gash came back and fetched some more pewter for Jerrard, and together they dragged Dedrie out of the building to safety (you can read about it in Fishrage's subforum). Dedrie took a hard blow to the back of the head during the fight, and so he was going to take a lot longer to recover. So Jerrard and Dedrie were still around, but it was going to be a while before I "brought them back," if at all.

Now let's talk long term plans.
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Re: The Big Reveal thread

Post by Herowannabe » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:56 am

The crew as a whole After a chapter or two with everyone on their own I was going to start bringing everyone back together, though I hadn't worked out many details as to how or what for yet.

Gen/Khav
Eventually, Khav was going to get the encounter with Hoid that he was after, and Hoid was going to tell him that basically his whole quest for revenge had been a farce. Hoid didn't kill his brother (indeed, as it turns out in canon he can't hurt people for some unexplained reason). There was probably going to be something about dedicating his life to a more noble purpose somewhere in his Destiny.

BeiStahl
I already talked about my tentative long term plans for BeiStahl- gradually becoming aware of the alien presence influencing him, building to a confrontation with the Heirs.

Artwar
Art had so much good stuff to work with. We had already gone farther down his Destiny/Tragedy paths than any of the other characters. His tragedy was going to center around dealing with the monster he had become as a youth and his feelings towards his father for forcing him down that path. I already told you the next step in that- discovering the collection of rings with their stored memories.

Art's Destiny... IIRC it was going to be focused on his faith and religion, and if anything, it was going to be Art who pulled the crew all together in the sense of everyone having a unified purpose. The struggles between Ruin and Preservation (and Trell) were going to be a huge part of all of that.

Inquisatrix Inquisitor June did love Art, and if he could have found a way I'm sure Art would have freed her from Ruin's control. More likely (as I think about it right now- I hadn't planned this far out before) she probably would have ended up dying/sacrificing herself in a suitably gut-wrenching way. And/or maybe she would have become Ruin's puppet completely and Art would have had to face her and fight her.

Petty
I have to admit, I had the hardest time figuring out the story I wanted to tell with Petty. So I was still improvising things (like his extended family still being alive) and seeing where they led us. Discovering that Art was the monster that murdered Petty's parents was definitely going to be a huge part of that, and how Petty dealt with that probably would have largely influenced where his story went.

Shane/Bergeron, Gash, Jerrard, Dedrie
Since one way or another these were all relegated to NPC status, I didn't really have any long term plans for them. They were there primarily to add flavor to the story and help move other people's stories along (like how Dedrie witnessed Khav's shardblade, thus bringing that issue to the forefront). Bergeron obviously would have shaken things up with his political machinations, though exactly how would have depended on what direction the crew ended up going in. For Gash, I know I wanted to put him in the situation where he would have to choose whether or not to give away a big chunk of his Breaths.

The overall story
You know how I said I usually have a pretty good idea of where I want things to end up? Well for this campaign I was envisioning a grand finale taking place at the Well of Ascension, with the *forces of Ruin and/or Preservation and/or Trell and/or Hoid facing off against each other with the crew in the middle of it. There would have been beads of Lerasium up for grabs, as well as the possibility of someone seizing the power of the Well, if you wanted to. It would have been epic. :D

*(By "forces," I don't mean it in the sense of "armies," but rather, their influence/power. For example, for Ruin I envisioned an Inquisitor (maybe Marsh, maybe June, maybe someone else), drawing power from the black smoke in front of the Well in the same way that Vin drew power from the mists).

Miscellaneous plans
Let's see, what else... remember the rumors of another person running around Luthadel with a shardblade? That was going to turn out to be a young woman, who was actually a world-hopping surgebinder- probably a Windrunner. I hadn't planned out a lot of detail yet because I was hoping that by the time we got to that point we would have enough information about surge-binding to have decent house rules.

An of course the events of the novel would have continued to play out, unless the crew did something to muck them up in a major way, such as assassinating Elend Venture. Speaking of which, if the crew had pursued that goal eventually they would have had to face off against Vin, which would have been fun. 8-)

Any questions for me? Any loose threads I haven't addressed yet?
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